Tuesday, January 31, 2006

Why not now?

First off, thank you all SOOO much for the mooshy love, it's so awesome!

I've pooped much today, let me tell you.

So, many of you have asked why we can't bring her home now!

A few reasons:

1) The birth mother hasn't signed surrender documents yet. After we meet her, they will show her "what they look like" and let her mull it over during the weekend, and then she'll come in some time next week to sign them.

2) Narda and I both have been scheduled (for about almost a year now) to go on the Grad School audition tour to Chicago and San Francisco for our respective universities. THE busiest time of year for me at work is December to March. So obviously the worst possible timing to have a placement, but we'll deal. I can't give up this trip, for so many obvious reasons.

3) This will give us the time to let a few days squeak by after she signs surrender papers, as in NY, it's 30 days for a birth mom to change her mind after she signs. Granted, this is a LOW risk situation for that (unlike the other 8 we've already had, which were HIGH risk), but every bit helps

4) And selfishly, due to a bit of FEAR about suddenly being parents without a clue, and wanting a smidgen of time for ourselves (all you lovely preggos get 9 months of "me" time and planning), the 2 weeks will help us with that. We'll even get a last "fling" in Chicago and SF if you will.

So I hope that answers your questions. I'll post more as I know more.

And thank you all so much again, it means the world to us. Know this.

She picked us!

She's thrilled about both of us, and feels it's a match made in Heaven.

We meet the birth mom on Thursday. WAAAAAAAY out on Long Island.

If all goes well, we'll bring her (the baby) home on Feb. 17; her 2 month old birthday.


OMG
OMG
OMG
OMG
OMG
OMG


HOLY CRAP!

Monday, January 30, 2006

Why I *heart* Grey's Anatomy

Now here at Hydrangeas Are Pretty, I tend to stay away from becoming a TV commercial, but I must admit to our Sunday night passion - Grey's Anatomy at 10pm, and the L Word at 11pm.

One of last night's story lines on Grey's Anatomy involved the blonde intern who is one of the trio of housemates that lives with George. (I'm HORRIBLE at remebering character names, and ONLY remeber Roseanne Barr because that was the name of her show, so forgive me here, there will be lots of references to hair color and character traits...)

Anyhoo, we learn that the blonde intern who is working in the neo-natal unit with the wife of the guy who had the affiar with the other chick (see, told ya) had a daughter. And she gave her up for adoption. We learn this as she is communicating with a young pregnant teen. I assume that she is going to talk about how much she regrets her decision, how awful it all is, etc. But NO! She says it's the best thing she could have done for her daughter, and she even encouraged the pregnant teen to give her baby up for adoption!

WOW. Adoption shown in a positive light, on NATIONAL TV. ROCK ON, Grey's Anatomy. I like the show for so many reasons, and now here's one more.

When doubt sets in...

So V (Birth mom) is supposed to visit the agency today or tomorrow to look at albums - ours and the other family.

I ALWAYS feel that No News is BAD news when it comes to the adoption thing. So my fear is that she went in, looked at the albums and chose the other family.

I could be totally wrong, but that's where my head is right now.

Granted, it would be SO WAY easier if everything happened AFTER March, but we'lll take whatever comes our way WHEN it comes.

I'm just sharing what's going on in my head with you right now.

I'm about to go shower and go into work, as there's just way too much that needs to get done in order for me to be gone a week and a half on this audition tour, and (G-d willing) a bit of time after that, so I have to really get things in order at my office, including the "what I do on a daily basis job description thing"). So I feel I'll be spending some late nights at work this week.

Sigh.

Sunday, January 29, 2006

where did the cat pee now? - UPDATED (found!)

So our beloved Cougie-bear has a small pishy problem. If you leave shoes or a bag out, he will just pee in it. It does not matter if it is ours, yours, theirs, or the boogey man's, he'll pee on or in it. It's just one of his special traits.

So here I am, on the sofa, Narda having just forgotten to put her shoes in the closet, and I spotted a small glisten on the hardwood floor around her shoes. I stopped to investigate, and lo and behold, Cougie peed on her shoes. We cleaned it up, used some lovely orange glo cleaner, put her shoes in a plastic bag to be put in the washing machine, and we think we're done.

But we both look at eachother. We smell it. cat pee. And we CAN'T FIND IT. We are crawling around the couch, the coffee table, pulling things out, smelling EVERYTHING, and we CAN'T FIND THE CAT PEE. But then as soon as we sit on the couch, we smell it.

I'm totally baffled. It's NOT on the couch. It's not behind or under the couch, either.

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH


*****UPDATE*****

We were wondering why, after every time a soft breeze blew in the window, it got a bit stronger... We lifted the couch cushions, etc. And then Narda got down on her hands and knees around the couch, and BINGO! The wool rug.

Great.

He probably peed ON something that someone left on that corner of the rug. And LONG enough ago that the spot is BONE DRY. So it's DRIED IN PEE. Ugh. Narda's using a bit of Resolve now, but I don't have the heart to tell her it's futile to remove the odor of cat pee. I think we need to get that organic apple stuff. But hopefully, at least it will do for now.

side note - I updated based on Narda's suggestion - I said Mazel Tov, we found the pee, she said: "are you going to update your blog?"

I guess so.

And of course, ANY and ALL cat pee odor removal suggestions are welcome. I prefer organic, Narda likes full force chemical assault. Just remember who writes the blog when you offer suggestions....

:)

OK, AS I was writing this, Narda calls from the bathroom, saying she needed help, as Cougie was just peeing on the floor (she was um, indisposed). He usually goes IN the litter box, faces the back, and gets a little out of the box, because someone faied to teach him that it's his ASS that has to be IN the litter box, not his HEAD, in order for his pishy to make it IN the litter box, but he's our special little guy, and cute as ALL get out, and 13 years old, so we forgive him for MUCH. But just now, OY! He just went and peed on the carpet that the litter box sits ON. I know it's his way of saying, "look lady. I am prissy and I LIKE a clean litter box.. I know you scooped the stuff this am, but REALLY. Could you just change the whole gosh darn thing for me please? I'm a little delicate." Or at least that's what he would say if he could use words. And he then proceeded to go and eat his kibble, as if NOTHING happened.

I think this is Ha'Shem's way of training us to CONSTANTLY be cleaning up pishy and poopy things. Have I told you that he poops in the shower? I mean, if you're going to poop somewhere totally inappropriate, the shower is as good as any - I always know where it is, and it's easy clean up. More or less.

And in all honesty, it just makes you laugh. I mean, I know when it's his FLUTD, and when he's just acting out. And it's usually just acting out. OY.

Understanding linguistics

I now officially know where the term "scared shitless" comes from.

Granted, my lower half has never felt so UNbloated... (it *could* also be my increased fiber consumption, but the two combined, well, WOW)

I am one of those ultra superstitious Jews who will NOT under any circumstances:
1) share name choices with you until 8 days after birth/placement.
and 2) bring ANY articles pertaining to a baby into our house until there is an actual baby here.

We kind of got around #2 by having a storage unit in our basement, and some lovely friends (with kids) at Shul "bought" it for one dollar. So anything that we put in there is legally thiers. They own the stroller and baby books that we have down there. Actually, they gave us that stroller, so it's even more "theirs" and we are just storing it for them. *Should* the need arise for us to ever use some of the things down there, we'll have to buy ownership back from them. Plus interest, to be fair. Now granted, I have to keep track of the times I've gone down to get toilet paper and the like, so that I can include those things in the purchase price. I think she paid more than a dollar, however, as I think the official transaction was the price of one Cremilita, aka Tasti-Delight, about 2 summers ago. So I think fair intrest would be perhpas 5 dollars to buy it back. (Or a LARGE Tasti-Delight)

But the arguements last night began with the: "IF we get this baby, knock on wood, Keinihora, Ken Yehi Ratzon (let it be G-d's will), etc. etc." I want a dresser, car seat and changing pad in the house on the day she comes home. To the which I replied. ABSOLUTELY NOT. She then said - OK, so we put those things in the storage unit, and on the day we come home, instead of bonding and cooing and oooing and ahhing, you are putting furniture together? Of course, I responded YES.

Am I crazy here? When do you let go of superstition for practicality? I also said that friends could come over and set stuff up. She responded - WHO would do that? (any volunteers out there?)

Now Narda is NOT a pessimist, she calls herself a "realist." I tend to fall more into the Pollyanna camp (oh, baby, we'll make it work, it'll all work out fine, etc. etc. etc.; to the which she tends to reply with such silly things like: "How?" - SO infuriating to my Pollyanna mindset, mind you...)

We of course also had an arguement about our respective jobs and how to handle that. Out of respect for her privacy, since I tend to post WAAAAY too much personal information on the internets already, much to Narda's chagrin, let's suffice it to say that we both like our jobs, have crazy times ahead and are realizing that we'll both have to sacrifice some things at work in order to make a family happen. That's hard. SO worth it, but in the day to day realities, really hard to do.

We have no further news, other than what I've already told you, but I just wanted to share what has transpired at our house between hearing the news and now...

(and again, any volunteers for furniture duty, let me know, and I'll add you to the list "Should" the need arise...)

Thanks for letting me share, internets, it's SO helpful to have a place to get it off the old chest, so to speak.

You rock.

Saturday, January 28, 2006

more info

We've been told to REALLY keep Thursday open.

Things are looking REALLY positive.

I've been pooping non-stop. Each time the phone rings, my intestines lurch.

Friday, January 27, 2006

update

We'll know more on Monday.

I'm sneaking back from auditions to update, as we just got another call...

-Girl, born Dec. 17
-Birth mom is 41 years old, mild pot usage, other kids are healthy
-Has one gay son, thus leaning towards a gay family
-picked us and one other family, leaning more towards us, will look at our album on Monday
-If she picks us, we'll go meet her on THURSDAY.




ACK!!!!!!!!!!!!

Will write more when I know more - thanks for the support and mooshy love!

gotta go run back to monotoring auditions...

3 squared = 9

3 is mystical number in Judaism.

Let's hope so.

We got call #9 last night. Keep your fingers crossed.

I'll write more about it when I can. I just don't want to jinx anything by divulging too much info. But I will say that there are circumstances about this one that bode better than the past few...

Thursday, January 26, 2006

Today's post is brought to you by the number 3!

I lost 3 pounds this week.

Yea me!

I think the average is 1 to 2 pounds, but I'm SURE happy to see the scale going DOWN for a change, instead of hovering or threatening to go up.

And I got a note back from WW, that they "thank me" for sending them feedback, and they'll be in touch.

Hahah. We'll see if the shrimp, swordfish and scallops get removed from the Kosher section.

My secret you ask? PRE-chop veggies and keep them in tupperware in the fridge, for munching purposes.

Wednesday, January 25, 2006

oh, the comedy...

So I'm doing a different WW (that's weight watchers for the un-initiated) plan. I'm doing "core" - where you basically eliminate certain foods, and just try to move more and eat less. No point counting, except for the "allowance" of 35 points per week - thank goodness the wine has somehwere to go.

I cheated, and stood on the scale at the gym yesterday, and if the scale at the gym and the scale at WW matches up, I'm doing well. (official progress report tomorrow after weigh in, I promise).

But the comedy, oh, the comedy.

Well, I'll just share the picture with you. As most of you know, we keep Kosher, and I don't do wheat, and TRY really hard not to do sugar. So I'm always looking for meal ideas, and I went to the WW meal idea section. I picked Kosher.

And well, I'll just let you look.

Image hosting by Photobucket

I wrote them a lovely little note, along with a web link to what actually *IS* Kosher...

But I have to admit, it made me giggle - THREE treif items out of five.

Tuesday, January 24, 2006

Be afraid, be VERY afraid

Bush VOWS people, he VOWS to overturn Roe-V-Wade.

Canada has elected a conservative government for the first time in 12 years.

Where can we go now? I am afraid for Narda's and my future, and for the future safety of our (not quite yet here) children.

Wow. It's getting scary. Kind of like when you know a big storm's a brewin and you're gonna lose power no matter what you do.

I'm off to prepare the bunker.

Sunday, January 22, 2006

History, people, H-I-S-T-O-R-Y

The Seattle Seahawks Are going to the SUPERBOWL!

YEEHAW, people!

Now, you have to understand, I was a football baby. Even before I knew I was a lesbian...

My father played in high school, in college, and would have gone pro had he not f'd up his knees. But football was (and is) still his life. He then played mildly at work, and coached pop-warner. I went along to those coaching sessions a few times; daddy's little girl. (there was a brief hiatus for puberty, in which I considered him evil, as amost every teenager does about their parents at some point), but I digress. He also volunteered for my highschool's footbal team as one of those guys that holds the yardage signs. And I was busy doing theatre...

When I went to my first adult superbowl party, and CALLED him. DURING halftime. I think it almost came as close as me winning the presidency of the United States.

Seriously, people.

So I KNEW that when Seattle just got that 4th touchdown, thereby securing their spot in the superbowl, that I could call dad and he'd be home. In fact, I called my dear friend Bobby, and the FIRST thing he said was: "So, dad must be jumping all over the place."

And he is my friends, he is.

Pardon me while I go give him the "Mazel Tov" call...

more love to be shared...

If ANYONE is an Infertility survivor, it's Wessel.

Her donor egg cycle appears to not have worked. Please go send some mushy love her way.



And a HEARTY THANK YOU! to all of you Hydrangea readers! My stat counter has broken 40,000! fourty-THOUSAND.

Wow. "You like me, you really like me!"

Thanks blog land, I feel the love.

Saturday, January 21, 2006

The human version of paxil

Grettel, one of my TRULY Faboo workstudies is going to come and kitty-sit. She LOVES animals, is incredibly mature and intelligent, and lives in a dorm, so will be thrilled at the chance to live in an apartment for 6 days!

Wahoo!

Now, I'm writing on Shabbos, because I'm stuck at work for three weekends in a row. If I can't do Shabbos at work, at least I can do it at home. So until the high paying Jewish Day School calls and needs an administrator-slash-Drama teacher, here I am at lovely NYU, where I just have to suck it up and work for 6 weeks straight in the winter. I did have a lovely Shabbos morning however, reading Sh'mot, aka, Exodus, aka, Here comes Moses. Quincy, as always, LOVES to help read the weekly Torah Portion, by plopping his purring little self RIGHT in the middle of what I'm reading.

But I have to tidy up my office, which is a BIG OLE MESS after a week and a half of auditions, and then go home, as Wunder-Grettel is coming over later to meet the fur-balls. Fortunately, Anastasia came yesterday, so the house should appear clean.



Oh - If you have a moment, go share some love with Estelle, as she had one HELL of a time at the allergist, for her son, "The Chuzz," AKA, Charlie. Poor thing. The doctor was an ARSE and shuold be reported to the local precinct for Hate Crimes. I think verbal abuse should be allowed to count for that.

Thursday, January 19, 2006

Anxiety

I always have anxiety about leaving the cats when we go away. If it was just a house full of Quincy-like beasties, I'd be fine. But we have two senior citizens, one of whom is on thyroid meds twice a day, and the other on Prednisone every other day for IBS. (read: if he does not get his prednisone, he cannot poop).

In my previous post, I mention the exciting mini-working-vacation that Narda and I get to take together in February. We're very excited, despite having to work during that time.

Well, I just heard from our regular cat sitter that she'll be out of town. ACK! I am asking two of my workstudies that I trust, one of whom has sat for them before, but she's a busy RA now, so it might not work. I'm hoping that the other one might want to stay in an apartment with adult amenities, instead of a dorm room.

I might be able to get a neighbor to do it, but I'm terribly nervous and anxious about it all. Each new cat sitter carries MUCH anxiety. Quincy is EASY, but Juno needs her meds mixed in her food "just so" or she won't eat it. Cougie needs his prednisone given to him by opening his mouth and basically throwing it down his throat, as he WILL NOT eat any medicine in his food. Training somone on the proper "pill distribution technique" is anxiety provoking in and of itself...

UGH.

Does anyone want to come stay in a nice NYC apartment from Feb. 7-13?

Wednesday, January 18, 2006

Small joys and random thoughts

Narda and I went home to Portland for the holidays, and then up to Seattle for New Years. She stayed in Seattle, where she's working at Seattle Rep on August Wilson's Radio Golf. When we are separated for work for a small period of time, the first two weeks are bliss! We each get to watch the TV shows we want, eat when we want, leave the ironing board out, do dishes when I want, play playstation when I want, go to sleep with the tv off and all of the lights out, (including those pesky little night lights!)... oh! did I just make this all about me? I'm sure Narda has lots of things she does and enjoys too.

But seriously. After two weeks, the novelty wears off. I miss her, and I (hope anyway) that she misses me too. Granted, this time it's all much easier, as I'm working a lot of extra hours during our audition process, so I'm "busy" right now, and the time allocated to miss her is less. But I still miss her.

But the topic of this post is "Small joys."

Narda comes home next week! A week from today, to be exact. I'm very excited to see her. I'm so busy right now, that I forget that I miss her most of the time, but then I stop and get glimpses of her in my mind, and realize how lucky I am to have her as my partner, my Basheret (literally translated as "meant to be, spiritually guided connectedness" but often synonomous with "Soul mate").

A little less than two weeks after she comes home, I'm off for the Audition tour to Chicago and San Francisco. Narda was asked this year to go on HER school's audition tour to interview design and stage management students. Guess where she's going? Chicago and San Francisco. Guess when? The EXACT SAME dates! So we are getting a secret Valentine's day mini vacation TOGETHER, paid for by our respective employers.

How awesome is that!

As soon as we come home on February 14th, we'd like the phone to ring. So universe, and Ha'Shem, if you are listening....

Monday, January 16, 2006

Getting my crafty on...

OK - bless all of your hearts for telling me how great this is - but it's REALLY Easy, actually. In fact, making an ugly doll is great for those of us who tend to use a recipe as a *guidline* as opposed to an actual *to be followed plan*.

To "felt" wool, I went to thrift stores while at home in Portland, and picked up a few 100% wool skirts, vests, blazers, etc. I took them apart with my trusty seam ripper, and put them through the wash on a hot/cold cycle with regular detergent. This binds the weave of the wool, and shrinks the material, thus *felting* it, and making it much softer to the touch.

Once the wool was felted, I made a rough pattern on an open newspaper that actually looks NOTHING ike this; I was planning on making an actual bear. I then cut out, as one big pattern, two shapes of bears, with liberal, and not so accurate seam allowances - THIS is the key. Then I meerly sewed them together, right sides attached, kind of free-handing it on the sewing machine. I think the free-handing, and not-so-accurate seam allowances is what helped this guy to take shape.

I left a section open, clipped the curves oh so slightly up to the thread, in order for it to lay even and not puckered when flipped right side out. (this part may not be necessary with a small seam allowance, but it doesn't hurt - just make a small clip into the seam allowance UP TO the thread)

Then I turned it right side out and stuffed it very full, with polly-fill stuffing, and hand-stitched the opening shut.

Then I did a google image search on Ugly dolls, and cut out felted wool eyes and tongue, and used embroidery thread to attach them. I made the mouth line first, just a running stitch across.

And there ya go! It doesn't look too bad, it's kind of HUGE as far as dolls go,(it's about one foot tall) but I'm still proud.

I think the next one, however, will be MUCH smaller.

But feel free to copy the deisgn, or to go and make your own. just let me know if you do, I'd love to see it!

Sunday, January 15, 2006

sassy


sassy, originally uploaded by shellipsm.

Just had to share the look that I get EACH and EVERY morning from her royal sassiness as I prepare breakfast for the fur balls that rule our house.

She finally allowed me to take her picture, as I think she approved of this pose.

She is SOOOOOOO sassy!

Wednesday, January 11, 2006

come out, come out, wherever you are!

Who knew! I read on addition problems, who read it on Paper Napkin

That it's NATIONAL DE-LURKING week!

I had NO idea!

So if you are a reader, but never post, say howdy, drop a note, place a pin, answer a poll, and know that I THANK you for helping to make this insane and soemtimes painful journey more bearable.

Truly.

Monday, January 09, 2006

I can't believe it's happening THIS early!

OK, so 2006 rolls around, the beginning of my 36th year on this planet, and what should I get to greet the new year with?

Gas pains that mimic a heart attack.

Oh joy.

Like BOOM - I enter 2006, and my body sends a gentle, loving reminder that it's ageing.

Damn.

It was one of my first nights in Seattle with Narda, and I made her stay up with me as we played cards, and I drank seltzer. I ran out and got Maalox the next day - but I'll tell ya, nothing works like seltzer to clear a few lodged gas bubbles. NOTHING. Just take a BIG swig of the stuff, wait a few minutes, and Voila! Pain-be-gone.

I'm still going to go see my doctor on Thursday morning, just to check things out.

And I had oatmeal for breakfast today, my winter staple. And my goal is to go to the gym today after work. I think the other remedy to this new development with my body will be massive weight loss. I have about 50-60 pounds to lose to get healthy, and about 20 more than that if I can do it, but I'll take 50-60 at this point. I fell asleep thinking about going back to OA. It's where I lost the big amount when I was 28. Which I'm not anymore. And I quit smoking three years ago, and I was on fertility drugs for almost a year after that. So I do have to be a bit gentle with myself in terms of expectations being different this time. But I have to do SOMETHING. And it will be good to focus singularly on something for a while; (read: instead of focusing on the lack of a small bi-pedeal in our lives).

I adore my therapist, but I fear she just can't help me in this respect. She's not an eating disorder therapist, and it's obvious. I've called her on the fact that she tends to change the subject after I bring up the food stuff, and she reminds me "that I know how to do it." That I have to find ways to "nurture" myself without food.

Well DUH.

It's SO hard when you *know* how to do something, but still find it hard to do so, despite your best efforts.

Saturday, January 07, 2006

Cougie looking AWFULLY cute!


Cougie looking AWFULLY cute!, originally uploaded by shellipsm.

Just a little new Years cuteness.

he really missed his eemah while she was gone visiting folks in Portland with mommie.

He hasn't left my side. ALL. DAY. I feel bad, like I need permission to use the loo.

Which I have to go do now, and pry the sleeping "little old man" from my right thigh.

Excuse me.

Friday, January 06, 2006

Pat Robertson is an idiot

I don't even need to explain myself here.

But for the unenlightened:

-On Ariel Sharon's stroke: "He was dividing God's land and I would say woe unto any prime minister of Israel who takes a similar course to appease the EU, the United Nations, or the United States of America. God says 'this land belongs to me. You better leave it alone.' "

-He has asked for the assassination of Hugo Chavez: "You know, I don't know about this doctrine of assassination, but if he thinks we're trying to assassinate him, I think that we really ought to go ahead and do it. It's a whole lot cheaper than starting a war ... We have the ability to take him out, and I think the time has come that we exercise that ability. We don't need another $200 billion war to get rid of one, you know, strong-arm dictator. It's a whole lot easier to have some of the covert operatives do the job and then get it over with."


-On Intelligent Deisgn: "I'd like to say to the good citizens of Dover: If there is a disaster in your area, don't turn to G-d, you just rejected him from your city. And don't wonder why he hasn't helped you when problems begin, if they begin. I'm not saying they will, but if they do, just remember, you just voted G-d out of your city. And if that's the case, don't ask for his help because he might not be there."


'nuf said.

Idiot.

In the mean time, I'll be saying a Misheberach for Ariel Sharon. May G-d be with him and his family during this difficult time...

Thursday, January 05, 2006

My favorite internet dog. EVER


, originally uploaded by dooce.

I present Dooce's "Sir Chuck"

AKA

Chuckles, the cutest dog on the planet!

You can buy his calendar at www.dooce.com

WHAT are you waiting for?

GO. Buy it!

NOW!

You ROCK, Sir Chuck!!

a bit behind...

Please forgive me, oh bloglandians!

What with the holidays, having been out on the "left" coast, my now insane work schedule (see previous posts about the bad timing for an adoption to happen....), and trying to get my fat ass in shape, I have been a bit remiss in my daily blog readings.

So please forgive me if I do not respond with the appropriate "oh Shit!" or "you go girl!" or "I can't believe that!" It's NOT personal.

Just give me a lovely idiot tap on the shoulder (or in the IM) and let me know how you are doing.

I promise to try and catch up sometime soon.

If I'm a bit behind in making posts, I'm sorry for that, too!

I AM updating flickr often enough, however...
picture pages!

A LOT of photos from winter recess, however, are restricted to friends and family, to protect the privacy of Narda, and some family friends with kids. If you are not listed as one of my friends and family on Flickr, just sign up and drop me a line, and if you aren't a weird internet stalker, then heck, I'll link ya up!

Wednesday, January 04, 2006

Three Years...

Three Years ago, we began the process of trying to start a family. I smoked my last cigarette on December 31st, 2003.

There have been so many milestones, and joys. But it has all been overshadowed by the lack of a child. Some days it's easier than others. Right now, I'm focusing on the apartment (MAJOR de-cluttering) and my weight. There is nothing else I can do.

What are some of the milestones you have come to at this juncture?